Nikolai, you could have wrapped it up by saying that communism does not require the monetary system or an elected government to lead the  people.

I believe you have failed to see where I am getting at.

What you need to realise is that technology serves as an extension for human beings. A life improvement, instead of spending 10 hours on manufacturing a complex object, you can spend 1 hour, simply observing the machinery. That means it requires you to work less, so you can go home early and spend time with your family and friends.
If you are forced to work 10 hours every day up until the weekend, you only have 2 days to spend with your friends or do whatever you want (Most of that time revolves around maintaining your house in staying clean and whatever chores people do.)
Those 10 hours you spend at the working days, all you can do is sit at home, and watch television for the rest of the evening.
Do you honestly think that my idea of a system would promote more laziness, compared to this system we're living in?

You given me a picture of people being lazy and doing nothing but sitting down and blindly consume food, then you start asking me if I am willing to give up on something.

I was giving an example that natives were not selfish and actually worked as a group together. They didn't give up on anything, they in fact, enjoyed what they did. Because it was their culture. However their culture was not about them consuming food and earning money to buy something they wanted unlike the "modern" civilisation.

Would you like to prove to me that we'd end up being lazy people by changing our way of thinking?
Don't use films as evidence either, use modern facts.

When you're forced to work. Every day. For long hours. You become mentally tired, therefore you lose your ability to motivate yourself to do anything that involves creativity and learning.

We know the common causes of laziness. Right?
Lack of motivation.

I have observed and asked questions to people, in college, home and the internet, I always find the same pattern. "I worked long hours as usual" then they move onto say "I need to have some time to do <Insert what they need to do>" then normally lead by "I can't be bothered to do this". I am pretty damn sure how laziness occurs. You have proven it yourself.
(By the way, laziness =/= fat people, and laziness does not just apply to physical activity, it applies to the mind as well.)
 
Keep that in mind.

It won't surprise me if this was not read.
Oh before you ask, I wanted to go to the gym. But cannot afford it. When I could afford it, I took that opportunity and went to the gym.
So yes, I do observe laziness by looking at myself as well and what provokes laziness. I don't resort to blaming, I actually look at the answer and find solutions.

Oh right, misread.
But yeah, every time we print money, we have to add debt.

I can literally say, once we began printing money we were at debt. Simply because the money system would not work without debt, if no one was in debt, money would simply be paper with numbers on it, a cruel game we have made.

We need to remember that communism won't work for that it uses the monetary system. Using any specific ideology, will not work.
 
We need to remember, every solution to a problem that we can use to get rid of all of our major problems, does not matter whether it's a communist or capitalist approach. If it works. Then it works.

The system we should adopt, should not have a set ideology or way of living, we adopt ideas that are practical for modern society, for that it makes us flexible, calling ourselves; capitalist, communist, or the like, will simply divide us up.
There is no such thing as a communist solution, capitalist solution, fascist, socialist, democratic, republican, or any of that kind. If it's a solution, then we implement it to the system, if it's not practical, we use an alternative solutions, we will keep trying until it's considered practical for our way of living.

95% of the problems we currently face in society are human problems, and we use intelligent solutions, by applying science and technology into it.
It should be our job to create realistic and practical solutions, if what we're doing is detrimental to us and the future, we need to find a solution.

We need to learn that at the end of the day, we are one, we have a common heritage, all of our contributions to humanity are equal.

Well, to change the society from using money to not using the monetary system, you'd need to do small phases, that educates people how such a system is viable and the best direction to go for human survival.
Small phases allows people to become comfortable with the new ways of living, rather than changing it straight away.

The first phase should be this: Create an environment that focuses on sustainable living.
This means, we should build houses that maximises the comfort for everyone, yet building it in the most simplest way possible, and producing the highest quality goods at the highest efficiency, and creating abundance of energy.

Building houses using materials that are abundant, pre-fabricated and efficient. This means that we will consume less power, and less materials but at the highest quality and efficiency.
Making an abundance of energy by using renewable power, it's no challenge for mankind, we can achieve it without the use of gas or fossil fuels. When you create an abundant of energy, it would be cheaper to tax.


The second phase would be: Technological production.
Using technology today, we can create an abundant of resources without the need of human labour, this means that humans do not need to do dangerous, repetitive, boring jobs. This allows humans to work less, which allows them to have more free time.
Creating less working hours does not make humans lazy. Laziness actually happens when humans are forced to do repetitive, long and boring jobs.
We can eliminate a lot of jobs in the world by just using technology alone.
When humans are given the ability to have more free time, they can educate themselves in what they want to learn, or do what they really want to do, rather than being given restrictions.


The final phase would be: Cleaning up the inefficient ways of living.
With humans being educated, machines doing mundane work for us, and having highest standards of living, humans are free to do what they need to do, and they'd be educated enough to solve problems without the need of politics, war, or the like.
The money system would be eliminated, simply because people have loads of paper on them, they can't do anything with it, because having an abundant of any goods would be worth nothing.
There'd be so much resources there would be absolutely no need of paying for anything.



The thing is though, people would raise questions such as ownership, and stealing.
Well, first of all, ownership may still exist, such as if you created an ornament for your house, that would be yours.
How to stop stealing? Stealing would not exist, at all. For that no one owns anything, there'd be no value of stealing it in the first place, for that you don't gain anything.
It would be like stealing from a library, what would be the point? There are plenty of books, and you can borrow it at any amount of time you want to borrow it for, providing you keep it at a good condition. This can by applied to vehicles, or anything you would like to use for that day and for a certain amount of time.

We need to remember though, we're human beings and the resources we have on this planet is common heritage. Food, water, air, materials, everything is common heritage.
What we need to understand is that we don't look at the obstacles, we focus on the goal. But obviously such a change won't be from A to B, it would require many stages and transitions to successfully adapt to our society.
I simply believe that we can easily create such a system with the technology available and the resources we still have left on this planet, we're fully capable of creating such a change.

Right, explain how you think communism would work.

But I can quite agree, communism is not bad, it's just the people who take control of it.

Communism does work theoretically, but the thing is, it attempts to provide jobs for everyone, and tries to make everyone equal, which cannot work using a monetary system.
Whilst communism does provide very good ideas on how to look after it's own population, in practice, it cannot work to be very honest with you.

You can say capitalism is bad, for one thing it demands everyone to be competitive with each other in making money, the person with the most money is considered more important than the individuals who don't earn as much money.
It goes under a guise calling itself "democratic" as people are "free" to do what they want.
The thing is with capitalism, you only get freedom if you have the money and the power, you can effectively control the people and the government.
The free market system works, but only for a period of time before it requires people to make desperate attempts to fix it and keep it going.

The problem is, people are far too educated to see that capitalism is the answer for every issue and communism is evil and destructive (They purposely put pictures like Stalin or other famous dictators to prove the evilness of such an ideology).

Quote from: [={.B.R.P.A.}=] Renegade Awsome on February 29, 2012, 12:06:35 PM

Quote from: Dakota on February 29, 2012, 11:58:59 AM

I'm a nurse I work in the ICU

Nurse, I'm going to the ICU for the seizure I'm going to have if I look at your sig to long.

No trolling, meaning no derailing with a post like that

Ontopic:
So is the way of the modern world, where sadly, more often than not, people fuck the opinions for more money.

I believe back seat moderating does not make you look wise.

Today, we're living a system that is no longer functioning, debt is at its highest, the rift of poor and rich is getting bigger, poverty still occurs, technology is advancing slowly and unneeded wars.
What is causing this? Money, of course. Every root problem is monetary related.
Sounds crazy of course, but it's true, no matter how much you deny it, it is always money that gives a negative impact to the world today.

Money is a vast topic, which makes it hard to understand why money is the degenerate for humans today.
First and foremost, poverty.
As Gandhi said "Poverty is the worst form of violence." and it is true. Poverty causes hunger, depression, diseases, and more, because people simply cannot afford anything. If someone wants clean water, you have to pay to get clean water. If you want food, you have to buy it. If you want medical treatment, you have to buy it. It goes on for everything you need to do.
Poverty will increase the common issue we have; Crime.

People in poverty will resort to crime, a lot of the crimes we see today is monetary related. Mugging, burglary, drug trafficking, shoplifting, anything that people can do, to earn a living. So they can feed themselves and live the highest standards they can possibly get, as it is human survival to get what they need to survive, and society reinforces that people with more money, have higher standards of living.

You can consider war as a crime as well. For that it requires soldiers, who are trained to be killing machines, in order to forcefully capture the resources and the power that the government needs, history will tell you that most of the wars are about resources and power, they're never about liberating people or saving a particular group of people, they make it seem that way so people would believe that we're fighting for a noble cause.


Money only functions, providing that there is resources or anything valuable that is backed by the country. If the United States printed money, but they had no oil, gold, or anything worth of value. The US dollar would be worth nothing.
For the country to have a good economy, you need people circulating the money, how do you do that? Simple, get people to consume, this creates GDP, so you need more people to spend as much money as they can, in order to keep the cycle of money going.
So, how do you get people to spend more? You need 3 things:

"Mass producing" - In order for it to keep it cheap enough for you to afford it you need to create a vast amount of goods regardless of the quality of the material that is being used in order for it to be cheap.
"Planned obsolescence" - Goods that become useless after a certain period of time or gets no longer supported by the manufacturers. This  is a strategic way for businesses to make money, for that it creates repeated customers, which creates consumption, these goods are never made at their highest quality, unless you want to be charged ridiculous sums of cash. They also make newer versions of said products to make the older one seem inferior, encouraging people to purchase more.
"Problems" - Anything, for example; if you have a car that has mechanical problems, you have to pay for replacement parts. This includes other problems, social problems that is. For instance, crime, it's important for the economy, for that crimes create more jobs for the police, prison officers, and spend more money to build new prison sites.

Obviously the good old media becomes so happy when they find there is economic growth because the GDP raised by 1% for that month.

Growth always occurs, this happens especially when a country is being given money from the banks. Banks do this specific kind of loan that is given to the government, when the government receives that money (Which is obviously, going to be a very large sum of cash), the banks will create money out of thin air, when that money is produced, they have to add the percentage of debt on top of it.
If a bank produces $1 billion, they might have to add the debt on top, if that debt percentage is 10%, the country would be $10 billion in debt.

How would this affect us? Well, simple, depending on the resources the country owns, will make your money worth less than it would have originally been.
If an island had a bank and it owned 1 gold bar worth $2000 to the US, the island can produce £2,000 of their own currency before it becomes worth less.
Conversion rates would, theoretically be;
£1000 printed, 1 gold bar - £1 = $1.25
£2000 printed, 1 gold bar - £1 = $1
£4000 printed, 1 gold bar - £1 = $0.50

Which means, if the country's central bank, at any time, was ordered to print more money, your will suffer the consequences, whether you like it or not.

Money being printed increases at such immense rates when war occurs, for that the government requires borrowing the money to pay the soldiers, defence contractors, oil, and more.
Petroleum companies normally back the government financially to go to war with country that have a lot of oil.

At the end of the day, you, and everyone around you, suffers the consequences, these things only pleases the select few, not for the people.

Remember, money only functions on growth and circulation, nothing more and nothing less.

At the end of the day, you're constantly facing debt, and you're forced to pay that debt as well, through tax, regardless of the hardship you may face in society, you're forced to pay that tax, if you don't, they'll rob your possessions or throw you in jail. Simple as that.

Remember, money serves as an invisible barrier for everyone.
If you want high standards of living - Money is needed.
If you want to be fed - Money is needed.
If you need clean water - Money is needed.
If you are ill or need medical treatment - Money is needed.
Education, hygiene, fitness, entertainment, enjoyment, pretty much everything essential, requires money.

I advocate a resource based economy, creating an abundant of resources, nutritious food, clean water, highest technological advancement and highest medical care. We have plenty of these, we can do this for the entire world, but we're being stopped because the imaginary system that we call "Money" exists. Paper with numbers on it, nothing more.

(Inb4 TL;DR)