S2? - A discussion on firearm rules

[GeneralTrivium]

On request, here is my input on the S2M/S2K system currently.

As usual, i'll outline how it works currently.

It's simple, if you're at point blank range (determined by the shooter(s)) then you are allowed to directly shoot at  them for immediate lethal effect without breaching the rules. However, if you are NOT at point blank range (once again, detmined by the shooter(s)) then you must shoot to miss, which means that you cannot directly fire at your target, you must aim "around them", so that you don't hit them.

There is a problem with this system. Say you're in a medium range firefight and the S2M system is in play. It would play out with no retreats/advances until you run out of ammo. This is boring. Sure it's fun for the first couple of seconds, but then you just find yourself stuck behind the same cover, shooting at the same places,  the urge setting in to just stop pussyfooting around and just cap the arseholes.

The S2M system was put in place to stop people whining from when they died by getting shot with excuses like "But I was AFK!" or "I was doing a /me!" which are perfectly reasonable responses. The RP would then pause whilst the issue is sorted, causing a break in the immersion.

This issue can easily be resolved. If you know that a firefight is going to break out then organize beforehand the terms. This way, if everyone agrees to S2K then there will be no whiners, as they agreed that if they die, they die and they have to NLR.* Of course, if someone is taken by surprise at point blank, then no such organization is needed and you can fire away with complete badassery. OR if you take them by surprise at anything longer than point blank then S2M, then organize something when you're both "safe".

*Or alternatively, the character can be assumed "Severely wounded" and can do some recovery RP afterwards.

I can't think of any significant "cons" to this system off the top of my head, so i'll leave it open to you guys.

Discuss.

[Pielolz]

On a server I admin in its S2K in the CCH/close quarter buildings with no /me. At longer distances its S2M. If your outside its S2K when your at/within couch length.

[chunkeymonkey79]

Minor bump, but the problem is after playing FPS games, when engaged in a firefight, most gamers have the instinct to kill, kill, shoot, kill.

11590 starts to shoot webuls.
11590's gamer instinct says: "STOP MISSING YOU KNOW BETTER, KILL THEIR STUPID ASSES NOW!!!"
11590 spazzes out and takes out the webuls with no effort.

It's hard to follow S2M, and enforce it, when everybody by instinct automatically shoots to kill.

[GeneralTrivium]

Then approve of S2K more. As long as people act realistically, e.g. not sprinting and shooting everywhere. Staying in cover when under suppressive fire. etc.

[Statua]

The decision whether to s2k or s2m isn't as easy as a simple "distance" or "location" system. Some scenarios require hitting, some require killing, and some require missing. It all boils down to what the situation is. If a group is escaping a group of overwatch, the players involved have to agree on who if anyone gets hit. If a hideout is getting raided, someone has to admit complete loss unless there's an exit. This must also be agreed on. If it's some thugs wanting guns from the resistance, it doesn't matter which group is more useful to the server, someone decides on an agreement.

If an agreement cannot be settled, an administrator MUST be called in.

No table, script, or system can decide who s2k's or s2m's. Now, this also brings up the question about automatic S2K people on catwalks. Here's what I think. If someone wishes to cross to the other side, they must contact an administrator to prevent any S2K.

I hope this gets settled soon as I have too many friggan problems in game with this. When I say hope, I mean if it's not decided by the weekend, I'll make the decision myself, regardless of what happens. Why? It's out of hand and nobody has decided to fix it yet.

[Scratchie]

S2M:
- Long distances
- Citizens (mostly)
- 03 and below

S2H:
- All units at Mid Distances (within reason)
- 02 - OfC at far distances
- Citizens (VERY RARELY)
- Authed users that are authed to have marksmanship experience

S2K:
- OTA
- Close range (WITH RP REASONS)
- 02+ at mid range
- DvL+ at far range (Within reason.  They wouldnt be able to S2K from the UCH to D2, but you know what I mean)

Ranges are described as:
Close: Up to distance from Nexus Side Airlock door to Side airlock door (about distance from center area in plaza to cwu wall.)
Mid: Up to length of catwalk bridge from D2 to wall
Far: Everything else

[GeneralTrivium]

This seems like a good idea. Is there a marksman specialised system within the CCA at the moment?

[Scratchie]

There is not.  But a weapon training system is being implemented.

But I am going to talk to waffle and make that list official.  For now it is on my call until Rofl says either way.

[Statua]

I like everything other then OTA automatically get s2k. Sure they're trained but at least give the refugees a chance to escape rather then using your 1337 fps skills to peg them off when they run. Hell in hl2 refugees manage to escape elements and sometimes even kill them back. OTA may be trained soldiers but a reserves unit or even a soldier won't be able to hit 100% or even 70% of the time.

Other then that, the table is ok as long as it allows players to rp whether to be s2k'd or not.

[GeneralTrivium]

How to resolve the issue with OTA:

Deploy them in rare circumstances. When the city is getting fucked up by an organized group of armed rebels, send the OTA in. And if people complain about how l33t the OTA are with their s2k skills. Say "tough", you rack up enough notoriety to bring out the big guns it's your problem.

[Scratchie]

How to resolve the issue with OTA:

Deploy them in rare circumstances. When the city is getting fucked up by an organized group of armed rebels, send the OTA in. And if people complain about how l33t the OTA are with their s2k skills. Say "tough", you rack up enough notoriety to bring out the big guns it's your problem.

Thats why, and thats how it is.  OTA is rarely called in.

[Statua]

Thats why, and thats how it is.  OTA is rarely called in.

what about the random s2 sweeps? Aren't OTA used for those?

Maybe OTA should only be called in the city for heavy resistance and/or critical situations (ie. Zombies, antlions, rogue rollermines (idk) etc.)

Once the critical situation has been cleared up, have cca units do the s2sweep, not the ota.

[Scratchie]

OTA is used for sweeps for a reason.

Anyway, going to make that official in a new post.

[Statua]

This brings problems with a PK. PK zones are where legit firefights would break out. CCA units doing a sweep are immune to this pk zone but citizens aren't. I find that to be very annoying, especially cince CCA units also have the advantage of firearms and armour.

It's nice s2k was sorted out. Now we fix PK's and PK zones.

[Scratchie]

Its simple: A PK/TK is issued with any RPed death, or any death (not caused by a prop or voided) inside of D2/Nexus.  The PK/TK is dependent upon the person issuing it, based on the RP or situation.

Situations can only be voided with a Admin+ approval